Women...part 1

a woman is like a

candle on a dark night

flickering, teasing, warming,

burning

and always beautiful, 

difficult to hold,

contain

changing with the

amount of air you

give her

lighting your path

-SER

Disclaimer:

Being a man I have a fairly good grasp on what makes me tick, for the most part - and how women make me tick, challenge and inspire me. The following is an expression based on my own introspect of my own experience and those of other women whom I have known as companions, close friends, associates, or through distant, and not-so-distant observation.

It is also an expression based on intimate, long conversations with women. One in particular gave me the wisdom of her years and life experiences, intense that they are, specifically for this blog. Her analysis, observations and experiences color this writing in areas where my knowledge and experience could not possibly go. I value her thoughts and thank her most sincerely.

This does not claim to include all women everywhere. For the most part, one can apply the following words as prefix: “generally speaking”. There are exceptions. And some exceptional exceptions.

Women are the world

Without women there is no continuation of the human species, on a biological level alone they should be valued and cherished for that. Men don’t birth life, they only impregnate, the process of a women shapes a human being into existence and through her value of nurture, she cradles life, protects it and allows it to thrive. 

Generally speaking. 

Yes, there are some women to whom the word “nurture” is a completely foreign concept, and there are some who spend their life living out their own unresolved demons, bleeding their struggle onto the life they bring into the world. (Yes, this applies to men as well, but we are talking about women and their more direct emotional involvement and experience with a child along the lines of the perspective “women are the world”. So there. Take off your comparison hats for this read please).

The parallels between women and nature are interesting. We state “mother nature” for a reason. We live in this world, it provides the sustenance for us to live, the materials to protect us. 

Where men put up structures we think are strong, nature hurls herself at them, continually forcing us to reevaluate our design, our structure, forcing us to strengthen and or adapt to the fluxing pressures and unseen nuances, or be swept away helplessly in the roiling onslaught.

We are different, but the same in our need to express

When one states their are no differences between men and women, well, the thought is laughable. Yes, generally, we have two arms, two legs, we eat, sleep and think, we have skin, we have hair, and on and on. Similarities abound. Anatomical differences define sex. But genetic and hormonal differences define masculine and the feminine - and through that, a tendency or not toward emotional context, relevance, and expression. 

Are there more masculine women? Surely. Feminine men? Absolutely. Again, this is a product of genetic and hormonal expression. Being true to one’s self means working the hand you’ve been dealt in life and expressing who you are as an individual. When we do that, then yes, we are certainly more alike than not. 

Anyone who has had sexual intercourse knows the differences between states of vulnerability. A man does not have to be receptive of the partner, or in a physically vulnerable position for the act of procreation (I speak only of what I know, have experienced, and what my female “counterpart” for this discussion has experienced. I cannot speak to homosexuality or the like, as it is beyond the purview of my experience).

Men are also more concrete in thought (one could say “concrete” is a somewhat inflexible medium - and this might even explain certain fundamental religions. One could say). For men, definitions of life fall into compartmentalized processes that build upon each successive, and successful, development before it. Generally (read the disclaimer, jeesh), a woman’s more realized, or experienced, emotional connection and nature give way to a living, mercurial state of being that swims with intuition, dines on sensitivity, and sleeps with vulnerability.

Challenge

Our differences are a good thing, if for nothing but challenging each of us to better states. The interplay and dynamics of the pragmatic and the emotional fill our world with color, flavors, texture and thought that wouldn’t otherwise exist. Masculine and feminine states invite challenge, invites growth and inspiration. It reaches into men to make them realize vulnerability and the emotional fabric that is woven in and through their lives, supporting them, nurturing them. The knowledge and experience allows them to proceed strengthened by a connection to something that is truly a part of them. 

Remember the valuable saying, “know thyself.” If you don’t fully know yourself (or even partially know yourself), then your aren’t as strong or as capable as you believe.

Examples of unspoken challenge are readily apparent. What man hasn’t lifted more weight, ran further, or did things louder in the presence of a woman or women? 

Competition

(Yeah, be ready to read the disclaimer again)

Women are more competitive with each other than they are toward men. Women won’t compete with a man in the same way as she will against a woman for a job. She will tend to yield more and in doing, also makes possible their lower pay rate and positions.

In this same vein, and perhaps because of it, women don’t have the same camaraderie as men. Where men can have multiple, trusting, close relationships, women often do not, having perhaps one or two they trust to the ends of the earth, if at all. If men are competing over a woman, it is usually an open expression that yields to the dynamics of male admiration for each other. 

“Try your best, and when she dumps you that’s when I try” is a phrase that would fit male experience. Men admire each other, especially when one has greater skill or proficiency in any particular way - especially with physical attributes. And we don’t personally attack ourselves for not matching those qualifications or meeting standards another man we admire has. We still have qualities we are proud of. 

Men will flex their big biceps and revel in their size even if we carry a big pot belly to go along with it. We still feel good enough about those big guns to get us over any other deficiency we may have, we feel good about ourselves and life goes on.

Women are more devious, preferring subterfuge and “back stabbing” to get the focus of their desire - most specifically with regard toward getting a man, but not limited to that. How many women can tell you a personal story of how a “friend” of theirs went behind their back to steal a boyfriend, or a male interest they were willing to approach? Or who verbally slighted you with a man to her favor? Not all women do this, but enough to make this statement true.

Confrontation

Men respect a physical confrontation more than a woman does, it’s in our experience. It keeps us from readily, or emotionally challenging another man when we get bent out of shape. When men get into an emotionally charged disagreement, and all avenues of our limited experience with speech have been exhausted, a physical confrontation is often next. The toolset we draw on then is a good right cross, a hook, or other practiced, or physical weaponry. 

Women tend to bully and intimidate rather than throw down. This keeps verbal barbs fresh on the mind as weapons, and emotional degradation and blackmail to the fore of experience with such matters. There isn’t an immediate thought that a physical confrontation is imminent, or the logical outcome.

(Continued in part 2)

Women...part 2

Disclaimer:

Being a man I have a fairly good grasp on what makes me tick, for the most part - and how women make me tick, challenge and inspire me. The following is an expression based on my own introspect of my own experience and those of other women whom I have known as companions, close friends, associates, or through distant, and not-so-distant observation.

It is also an expression based on intimate, long conversations with women. One in particular gave me the wisdom of her years and life experiences, intense that they are, specifically for this blog. Her analysis, observations and experiences color this writing in areas where my knowledge and experience could not possibly go. I value her thoughts and thank her most sincerely.

This does not claim to include all women everywhere. For the most part, one can apply the following words as prefix: “generally speaking”. There are exceptions. And some exceptional exceptions.

- Women Part 2 -

Upbringing

Greater delineation of our differences comes from our nurturing, or lack of nurturing, and environment growing up. Here are some examples that, for better or worse, help shape us separately in life:

Toys

 Here the media plays an important, gender-specific, role in influencing children in play. It is the boys who play with dump trucks and guns, not the girls (personally, I think women with knives and guns are sexy, but that’s me). And how many girls are playing with the easy bake oven, as opposed to the male majority of chefs in the restaurant business? Methinks there are a lot of boys playing with the ovens behind their sister’s backs.

Girls aren’t encouraged to play rough and tough. This I can’t understand, having trained many women over the years in self-defense. You are doing your child an injustice by not letting them, or encouraging them, to express physical skills. Training the body trains the mind, it encourages self-reliance and independence, it enhances coordination and (in strength-related play) keeps bones strong.And physical play is a huge stress reliever.

Childhood play sets up a lifetime of positive characteristics that help them deal with the world and adversity. Less women would be victims of crime if they are taught early on that they aren’t weak or incapable and that rough play isn’t just for boys.

Emphasis on looks

 Where boys are told basically to scrub their face, wear clean clothes and to comb their hair, girls are trained to view and apply lip or hair coloring, face-painting (yes, that’s really what it boils down to. Come on, you apply it with a brush, right?), type or style of clothing and mannerisms, “a lady sits this way”, etc. 

Women are trained for emphasis on looks for what reason? To attract a partner, and with the majority of the population it is for attracting a male. For most of us, a man is sexually attracted to the opposite of a man, and the more brightly colored the distinction, the more attraction. (If we are talking about physics and biology, highlights are more immediately noticed than shadow - this is with regard to coloring, but also psychologically with personalities. “Noticing more” and “being able to live with” are two very different things). 

Yes, there are differences in degree here as well. Some men, myself included, prefer a more physically capable woman, as opposed to one who is soft and has the right paint job. And there are women who feel more comfortable with a less-masculine or dominant man.

Sexuality

Girls are taught to withhold and boys are, more or less, applauded for sexual conquest or expression. This certainly has to do with girls getting pregnant at an early age and becoming a burden on the parents, as well as the way we view girls as weaker and to be more protected than a male in society. 

There is also an emotional context women deal with with regard to sexuality and the person they engage, as opposed to a man’s sensitivities (stop laughing). Certainly, emotional maturity is not at it’s peak for decades (if that) and men, not having any great ties or understanding for emotional states tend to not be sheltered the same as women. In play, when a boy gets hurt, he may cry a little and then move on, whereas a girl is expected to be held and assessed for more possible damage. She may also linger in her mother’s or father’s arms longer for emotional comfort than a boy (her comfort, or the parents’).

I do have to put in a word about parents and the media over-sexualizing our youth. There are parents who talk about, and sometimes in depth, about their little Suzie or Johnny having a girlfriend and the associated references - this at 4 years old and less. Gearing up children for behavior you really don’t want them to engage in, or somehow feeling the need to live through them, is inappropriate. Let a child live a child’s life.

Expectations. 

Think for a minute just what expectations you have set up for your female child, or just women in general. Female children are expected to empathize more, to show care. They are not immediately chastised for crying. Household chores or yard work is different, relegating the heavier lifting to the boys and the cleaning to the girls. Boys fix things, girls have boys fix things. Discipline is physically harsher on boys, and girls are often spoken to logically and told why something was wrong. Boys get to choose the sports they go into more than a girl does. 

Expectations are also a byproduct of observation. A child watching her mother change her hairstyle or color, or make comparisons to other “more beautiful” women, and then manipulating her features to reach a perceived aesthetic or to assuage insecurities, teach the child that change is important and to not accept yourself for who you are. Insecurities are passed on to a child as effectively as a bad gene.

Gender-specific expectations relating to personality development - and micromanagement of such - are a limiting thing for a creative, unique, child. 

Breathe, just breathe

Women have this terrible attachment to guilt for some reason. It drives many of their actions and stimulates many a depressed state - as well as causes them to run themselves ragged pouring over children’s concerns, husband’s concerns, friend’s concerns, pet’s concerns, world concerns…well you get the idea. Knock it off all ready ☺ 

Men are not afflicted with this to the degree women are (and some women may say “not at all” and I wouldn’t fully argue the point).

Women seem to take time for themselves only when they become so overwhelmed that they either collapse or are admitted to the psyche ward. Little hint here: that doesn’t help the people depending on you. 

Take time for yourselves at regular, scheduled times (because some of you have to put this down in writing and have it signed by a judge) during the week. Each week. Every week. From now until you’re in the ground. 

The more you’re refreshed and physically de-stressed, the more functional you become, the more pleasant you are, and the more it bleeds out onto everyone you touch. And you touch a lot of people. So, if you won’t do it for yourself, do it because it is better for them having a happy you around. If they have any brains in their head (or desire for self-preservation) they will give you this time, they will create it if it doesn’t exist, they will move a mountain to see you are taken care of. And remember this little bit, guys: In a life-death scenario where she has the choice to save you or your child from drowning, the child gets saved. So bump yourselves up a little bit on her ranking system by treating her well, it may mean the difference between life and death one day.

Breathe now, take in a deep breathe and let it out slowly and know that we are immensely happy you are in our lives. You inspire us and challenge us to become more than we are, you’re beautiful to look at and you smell really good. And your touch…well, it’s so much home.

After all, women are the world.

Men...

(audio link)

So here I am writing about men. A dear friend of mine wanted this, so blame her : )

Here is the disclaimer, please refer back to this when or if you come across something that invites your ire saying, “why, that isn’t so at all!” 

Disclaimer:

Being a man I have a fairly good grasp on what makes me tick, for the most part. The following is an expression based on my own introspect of my own experience and those of other men whom I have known as close friends, associates, or through distant, and not-so-distant observation. This is specific to my experience and observations and does not claim to include all men everywhere. For the most part, one can apply the following words as prefix: “generally speaking”. There are exceptions. And some exceptional exceptions. 

Now, on to the writing.

We have feelings.

This might come as a shock to a lot of women, but we do. And, our feelings are just as important as yours are. Feelings for us, however, aren’t some grand vista we enjoy frolicking in, sharing or expressing to the delight of the other men around us. 

For most of our lives we’ve been geared toward action; creating, destroying, fixing, protecting. When plagued by an emotional onslaught, which could be something as terrible as a tear rising because of witnessing something beautiful in nature, we tend to make sure no one is around looking as the emotion works its way through us. If someone else is around, another man for instance, we shift from the focus of the emotion to a physical expression, or turn the uncomfortable welling up into something that can be joked about. Sort’a takes the sting out of the tear, so to speak, and puts us back on the path of being strong again. 

Emotions = weakness. That’s what most men believe, or are taught to believe. It’s a soupy, mushy, wet…are you getting the picture here? Nothing about those last descriptives says “strong”.

We are conditioned from youth to be strong, all our play, challenges, posturing and confrontations are based on what we can physically do. We aren’t in the position of throwing emotions at one another, preferring a nice, solid knuckle sandwich instead. It’s easier to deal with, states intention and decisiveness and usually clears things up within seconds. For the winner at least. The loser has to deal with the stuff we aren’t taught to deal with, the emotional aftermath.

I dare say women aren’t quite “taught” how to deal with emotions either, they just have more practice and experience using them, though there are exceptions (please go back and read the disclaimer), most women aren’t raised expressing their physical strength for fun and fighting in lieu of emotional awareness. We are all taught solutions on how to deal with the situation that causes the emotional uprising, but rarely how to understand why we feel a certain way about something, or ways to reduce emotional stress through journaling or meditation or, get this, understanding the other person’s perspective. Fix the problem, not create an understanding (which, in turn, fixes the problem and better matures us, emotionally speaking).

We like to be admired

Why do you think the knight had shining armor on and not dull armor? We like to be admired for our pretty feathers, proud and spread out to attract…oops, sorry, that’s a peacock. But the point is the same. Why the heck do you think we build all that stuff? Or exercise our strength to help out when we can and another cannot? 

I’m not talking about putting us on a pedestal and throwing flowers at us, I’m talking about the little things we do that makes us men. We like to be admired for opening that jar of jelly, or for lifting more grocery bags at one time than you can. We like to be told how strong we are, or how well we did something, especially when it comes to something that flexes our male (generally speaking, go back read the disclaimer) strengths. 

Now, you can say everyone enjoys that, and you’d be right, but it’s different with us, it puffs us up and makes us want to do more of that, makes us feel that we are fitting in the world properly, in our place. Don’t forget the praise, male-specific praise, include touch or a hug to top it off. It. Works.

We have a mouth, or: we like to be heard.

“Once you get a man to talk, he just won’t shut up.”  - Anyone have that problem? Most likely not. Men are often cut off mid sentence, or run over (yes, poor poor men) when we are trying to express something. And let’s get to the point: yes, we don’t always know best how to communicate (again, knuckle sandwich remember?). That requires a ton of patience on the other person’s part, but the reward for such patience is incredible. Words tend to be connected to feelings and feelings are something we don’t spend a lot of time understanding or wanting to understand. See the connection? When we are cut off or not allowed to express ourselves verbally (patience remember?), we are cut off emotionally and we may shut off, or build resentment for not being able to have a voice.

It’s important. Listen to us please, and try to value what we say. The more practice we have, the better connected we are to our emotional expression - just don’t try to force us to talk for cryin out loud! Whew, don’t do that. Just hear us when we start to open up. Don’t finish the sentence, don’t jump to a comparative in your own experience and interject. Let us finish what we are saying. Wait a few seconds as he might not be done. Then ask a question. Questions are a great way to get people to talk. They tell the person we want to know something, and if you’re doing it right, it also says that you just might value what we have to say. And if you value us, we feel good about being with you, will talk highly of you, will climb a mountain for you. (Yes men, that value thing goes both ways, don’t forget it, ever. And I mean ever.)

As with any relationship, words coming out of someone’s mouth to another someone they supposedly love, should never be tinged with insults or degradations. Ever. If one can’t talk to someone without cutting them down, then that person should not talk, and needs to deal that bunch of emotional garbage and behavior with a therapist. Don’t put yourself through that. Language is a beautiful thing, it should always open doors, not close them. And certainly not smash them to bits and then stab you with the little pieces. 

So there’s a little bit on men. Secrets if you will. Spread it around. You might be surprised who doesn’t know this stuff.

Middle Child

(audio link)


The middle child, hmm. Interesting things have been written about them, and as far as studies and research goes I can only make comparisons where they intersect with my own truth. Here are a few things I will comment on, these are typically suggestive of the middle child based on research, both ongoing and complete, as well as logical extrapolations researchers have had to go on when subjective topics were breached.

Sometimes they feel invisible

In my own way that wasn’t something I worried about or concerned myself with. My nature growing up with eight brothers and sisters tended toward following my own path very early on, I had to discover my own path through a lot of solo play and analysis of my environment. This, by itself, meant pulling myself out of the stream of “what everyone else was doing” and focusing inward on my thoughts and imaginings, creating my own worlds. This tended toward seclusion, spending hours and hours imaging and creating, so in a sense, I was invisible for a lot of the time as I forged my own path.

I was an introvert, whether it was a product of my deep introspect, environment, genetic tendency, or all of the above, so being out of the limelight was more a pleasure to me than the reverse. That changed later in my early 20s as I got fed up with the associate of my introvertedness - shyness.

There is a related theme in research about how the middle child often has the fewest pictures in family photo albums. That is a truth I have experienced, but for different reasons. For me, it was because I was always the tech-child, the one behind the camera, or off doing something by myself when photos were being taken. Looking back, I do wish there had been more photos of me, would have been interesting to see me at many more stages as I moved through life.

I suppose there are other middle children who struggled to be noticed in their family. I had no such concerns. I simply never even thought of it. By itself, it was a non-issue. 

The middle position (birth order) is one of the prime forces behind science and social revolutions

I’ll keep you posted on this one ; )

May be especially influenced by their peer groups

Not for me. Quite the opposite in my case. There was much I simply didn’t value about what was going on with cliques or other groups, especially in school. I valued, and value, the individual, and that was difficult to find in a group of people looking to be accepted by each other. The close friends I did have had unique, expressive qualities, or they accepted me for who I was, and not who I was with. 

Overall, being the middle child of so many had its advantages. I could get lost doing my own thing fairly easily, and was left alone in that regard simply because I think my mom was just curious what direction I was going to take. She had the wisdom to give me that freedom and just see what happened, giving me the sage advice, “You can do anything you want and put your mind to (in life).” She said this with full conviction and it is something I keep with me to this day.

The phrase “he’s a late bloomer” was wrapped lovingly around me…well, at least maybe more so as something to mollify her own brother’s and sister’s questioning minds about me at family gatherings when speaking of their children. In retrospect, I probably put the kind woman through more than her share of concern regarding me. Had she known about the risk-taking I did up in trees and off of roofs and…well, it’s better she doesn’t know about all that. 

But, late bloomers are in good company too. From Grandma Moses who didn’t take up painting until she was in her 70s to Dr. Ruth Westheimer (yes, you know, the lady who did a stint as a sniper in Israel in her late teens) who started her famous radio talk show in her 50’s. The list goes on, Ian Flemming, Charles Darwin, Mark Twain all were late bloomers with regard to when their successes touched the world. 

Some research suggests that middle children are more likely to engage in dangerous sports or careers that have an element of danger and/or risk.

The above line was in regards to the middle child wanting to be noticed and needing to find ways to stand out. As I wrote before, I was never one to need or want the limelight, preferring to be in my own safe corner of the world, creating. I have to believe my risk-taking was something genetic. Yeah, I’d have to agree with that one. Though I don’t consider my training and founding my own martial art defense system dangerous, enough people do that I think it might qualify. And I suppose I have enough injuries over the years to endorse that qualification. And, um, there’s that stuff about the roof-jumping and other such that won’t be revealed till my later years. Perhaps.

Middle children are inventive, more independent, and are born mediators and negotiators

I have to agree with those statements and I think they are related well. With enough children above and below me in the family, I saw many ways of how not to do things. I’m sure there was some understanding about how to do things, but they aren’t as easily remembered as all the how not tos. We were/are a community all on our own, each brother and sister a completely unique individual, so growing up I had my own research venue to pull from and personalities to deal with.

I had to be inventive on many levels. Risk-taking creates its own obvious demands so I won’t go into that. But I did find myself as a child listening to and trying to understand both adults and children for the purpose of trying to redefine arguments or to make someone feel better when something that wasn’t pleasant happened. I wasn’t always successful at expressing my care or concern, that skill took many years to develop (probably won’t ever stop being refined), but I think I got the feeling across that I was there, that I cared. 

There were graphic, and sometimes violent examples where I had to negotiate for my safety or the safety of others, which I won’t go into, but I’m alive, as are loved ones, so I at least functioned adequately for the task.

I favor those who are independent, like myself, those who do their own thing not for the purpose of being seen as independent or unique, but because it is a natural part of their development and expression in life. Its funny when you think of those who wish to be seen as unique only to fit in and be accepted by those who they want to be a part of. There’s the example of all those young girls trying to emulate Madonna during her heyday, claiming they were expressing themselves as unique, but all dressing up in Madonna fashion. Unique just is, it doesn’t emulate.

Conclusion

My own childhood experiences characterizes the middle child thus:

Middle children do take longer to find their path in life - using a lot of trial and error. The dynamics of children above and below, which seem to be more easily cemented due to the parent’s focus and growth and experience with raising a group of children, help define my position on this. Once the older children are capable, they tend to share in the workload of raising, and as a byproduct, allow middle children to be influenced by a developing older child - who may have other attention focuses. This doesn’t give the same stability or directional influence attention an experienced parent gives. It also doesn’t give the same sense of authority to the middle child, allowing them to bend rules to find their own way. It’s easier to get lost and rebel to an older sibling than an experienced adult. 

Middle children are exposed to a unique flux of developing personalities and minds. In all of this, they not only have to deal with their own “sorting out”, but also sorting out the maelstrom of flexing ids and egos around them. This is where the need for negotiating and mediating has to come into development, out of necessity to try and instill a sense of order in their own world. They are often besieged by attempts at control from the older ones, and attempts at manipulation from the younger ones. You may say they are the same thing, but they are not. An attempt at control implies one is coming  from from an assumed position of power, and can use manipulation as a means to an end, but in my experiences it is often more direct than subtle. Manipulation, especially from younger children, doesn’t often stem from an assumed position of power, so their needing, creative minds have to engage in manipulations subtle and gross to achieve their ends.

Middle children do need that one on one time with a parent (they may not often get as much as other children in the family). I fondly remember two major influences in my development, both in self and in connection with my parents. My dad isn’t a verbose man in the slightest. I remember spending hours riding on a tractor next to him when I was around 10, as he plowed and then raked a large field. I spent most of my time standing next to and leaning on the tractor fender as the angle of the tractor tilted because of the furrows created. Clods of dark dirt would kick up and sometimes be thrown against the fender, making a dull metallic thump under my hands, my mind taking it all in, the lay of the land passing beneath us, the distant tree line perspective changing, the dark birds landing confidently to pluck freshly uncovered worms from the upturned soil. 

Much later, when we were level, switching out the plow and pulling the rake behind us, the air changed. A wind rose, spraying us with fine dust from the topsoil that had been aerated and broken up. I would occasionally sit against dad on the little bit of seat he could give me as the sky turned deep orange and red as the sun closed the day.

Dad didn’t have to say anything, and I don’t recall many words passing between us at all, as we were both pulled into the experience of nature around us and our minds wondered freely. I knew he was there next to me, I could smell him, feel him as I bumped against him. A part of my mind that noticed such things, told me I was safe and reveled in the assurance that he was there.

With my mom, I was probably a couple of years younger, we were walking out toward the woods on a clear and beautiful summer day. The air was full of the scent of cut hay and the occasional darting peep of a bird intent on insect treats among the hay rows. Mom has this wonderful voice that consists of patience and happiness and groundedness. She started asking me questions about science, one of my favorite subjects, more particularly on molecules and their invisibility and such. What was so important wasn’t the content of what she was asking, though content was a wonderful joy of mine and she knew it, it was how she seemed so completely interested in what I had to say on the matter.

One answer from me would get another question from her, never disputing or correcting my expression, but showing only more curiosity and then, get this, waiting for me to formulate my thoughts and complete my response. She listened to me, heard my voice. That was powerful. It’s power reaches into my life to this day with any women or person I spend time with. And its something I take my time to exercise when someone is speaking to me. This “being heard” stuff is powerful indeed. 

Thank you for listening.